UK_Dispatcher From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 2023 posts, RR: 17 Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 437 times:
Here in the UK, there seems to be more ground handling carried out by independant handling agents, rather than airlines having their own Airport Service / Ramp staff. I have noticed that in the USA, however it seems to be the opposite.
In the UK the 'big two' handling companies are by far Aviance and Servisair, with companies such as Swissport, Globeground and Groundstar also having a presence at some airports.
Recently, there have been examples of large carriers outsourcing their own operations to handling agents, such as Aer Lingus outsourcing their operation to Swissport at LHR, and BMI British Midland selling their LGW/MME/LBA/ABZ/JER/DUB/LHR(Ramp)/MAN(Ramp) & GLA(Ramp) to GHI (now Aviance) last year.
Do handling agents have a large presence in the USA, or are the majority of the airlines still self-handling?
Also, anyone got any stories of good/bad handling agents? I did hear that Qatar Airways swtched their LHR handling from United Airlines to British Midland Handling Services (now Aviance) because UA allegedly left a deceased member of the Qatari Royal Family in a casket on the ramp when they should have been loaded onto a flight to Doha where half the country was awaiting them!!
Srbmod From United States, joined Mar 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 39 Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 335 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Here in the U.S., there is a large number of airlines that use ground handling companies. Away from hub cities, many airlines use these companies so they only have to have a minimum of employees at outstations. At other outstations, some airlines will have their flights handled by other airlines instead contract handlers due to gate constraints. Some airlines, like Vanguard use third party ground handling firms exclusively to keep costs down. The major ground handling groups in the U.S. are Ogden, Hudson General, Aircraft Service International Group, and Airport Group International. Some cities they do both fueling and ground handling, others they just fuel aircraft.
Inflation hasn't ruined everything. A dime can still be used as a screwdriver.
KAL_LM From United States, joined Jun 2001, 497 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 316 times:
A lot of foreign air carriers also use out-sourced ground handlers for much the same reason. By using someone elses manpower, they can keep their staff at a minimum. Unfortunately for the contractor (I mean their agents...) that this translates into low wages, poor hours, and usually no benefits...although there are exceptions to all of these.
For instance, by using a out-sourced handler, an airline only needs a bare minimum of staff to do the job. Here in PDX, KE only has 6 staff devoted to cargo (2 ops, 2 sales, 1 Mgr, 1 Mech.) and contracts handling out. That's only 6 people they have to give benefits to. Whereas the ground handler has 30-50 people, which if employed by the airline, would bite into slim pockets with benefits and salary. The resulting increase in overhead costs would translate into higher shiping rates and so on.
Unfortunately it really all boils down to money...what can you get for the least amount of cash possible. I can say this from being on both sides of the battle. One side, being an underpaid ramp rat, the other, the manager trying to keep costs down.
Also by using handling companies the airline can threaten to change companies if the quality of service does not increase...(we're talking massive service failures like repeated aircraft damage and the like)...you can only threaten your own employees so much, and if they're unionized drastic change becomes a much harder.
As with the airlines, some companies are good, others not so good. It also depends on the airport as to how good the company is. Our staff here in PDX is very good, but their counterparts in LAX are not very highly reccomended.
Sorry if I've rambled...just my 2 bits worth.
Regards,
Tom
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
AirFranceJFK From United States, joined Jan 2002, 428 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 294 times:
The majority of the foreign airlines operating into the U.S. use private ground handling firms. At JFK, almost all foreign airlines are handled by Swissport or Worldwide fight services. The few foreign airlines that do have their own check in staff are Air France, Lufthansa, Korean Air, Virgin Atlantic, and Air India (I'm sure I might have missed a few, but there aren't many). I believe Grupo Taca also has its own check in staff (for Lacsa and Taca), but I'm not 100% certain. El Al has its own, however, least I heard, it was scheduled to be handled by an independent company.
There is of course the obvious difference of having an airline being handled by its own check in staff versus that of an independent company. AF used to do checkin for Air Afrique for many many many years. A few years ago, the contract was given to Swissport. The result was not good, as the Swissport agents had no understanding of RK's route structue, aircraft capacity, onward connections etc.
Lasbagman From United States, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 287 times:
Here in LAS at Terminal # 2 , GlobeGround North America does Ramp and Passenger Services for :
Air Canada
Air Transat
Allegro Airlines
Aviacsa Airlines
Condor German Airlines
Hawaiian Airlines
Japan Airlines
Ryan International
Skyservice Airlines
Our Baggage Service Department is highly trained on Worldtracer Mangement and Sabre.
When we handled Canada 3000 , we were sent a letter that we were the best office in the USA.
Air Canada has said similar comments and that we are more on top of things then UA or even some AC stations.
Again, like the previous post it all depends on the staff and training they received.
Lasbagman From United States, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 281 times:
WFS used to be AMR Services, AMR sold them off to Castle Harlan. WFS in LAS was a good company, the county decided to go for a european handler thats why
Lufthansa's GlobeGround was put in its place.
Skyway1 From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1006 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 276 times:
Well, in Dayton, Ohio the Worldwide Flight Services operation isn't one of their best. But for AA money talks so you pay the ramper the cheap wage instead of the old TWA guys making almost $17/18/hr. That's the way it goes in capitalism I guess!
Lasbagman From United States, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 266 times:
hi Skyway1
Every Airport has a diffrent starting wage. In LAS
GlobeGround actually gets paid more then most of the airlines here in LAS. we are $3.00 per hour HIGHER then
National Airlines for an example.
HB-IQF From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 103 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 244 times:
Hi there,
most airlines decided to change to outsourced Ground-Handling to save money. It is even cheaper than an own handling. About 5 years ago Swissair founded their own handling, the "swissport" and this year they are
the second largest groundhandling of the world and
won again the "Ground Handling of the Year" Award.
Swissport is the only Handling agent working with a
service standard worldwide: the ISO9002 !
Even in the US they have about 50 Stations !
Worldwide more then 130 Stations,
more than 550 Customer Airlines andover 15000 employees.
That makes about 55 000 000 handled passengers
and 1 600 000 handled aircrafts.
Thats not bad or.
But also a big group like Swissport has its problem.
It is always a lot of work to start a handling for an airline wich haven´t been served before.
I think, it is very interresting to serve a couple of airlines than only one.
For latest SWP news also see: www.swissport.com
Loadcontroller From Switzerland, joined Feb 2002, 85 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 240 times:
Marco
The major thing you forgot:
Swissport is a former subsidiary of SAir-Group (or Swissair Group or Swissair or whatsoever...). As long as we were "Swissair Ground handling" we were given the same benefits (ID-travel etc.) as all employees of the whole group. By being outsourced, the "core-company" whitch was during the last year covering nothing but the flying business, they saved a hudge amount of these costs. By now, as of the 1st of april, we lost all the transport reductions which was a nice part of our income because we are not an airline company any more. Honestly, I do not think that we will get either paid more or keep any of those benefits or even get an increase of our salary.
This is outsourcing in a very capitalistic sense...
Eugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 434 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 233 times:
With maintenance there are huge economies of scale - the bigger you are the cheaper it gets (ie admin, hanger costs). So small airlines out source in order to tap into the economies of scale. But if you are big enough it might be better to do it in house because of tighter qualitiy control, maintenance procedures more tailored to your airlines requirements etc.
Another reason to out-source is to avoid problems with unions etc. Mechanics working with out-sourcer has less bargaining power.
Skyway1 From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1006 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 235 times:
lasbagman,
That's good to hear your company actually pays a decent wage. But here in Dayton the Worldwide Flight Service people do get paid quite a bit less, like I said some of the older TWA guys were making like $17/18/hr. So, AA got rid of the TWA guys and kept the way lower wage Worldwide people, plus the Worldwide people are not union either. I would think the pay scale for Worldwide would be fairly consistent from airport to airport. But like you said some other businesses like yours might actually pay a decent wage, but don't expect that from Worldwide.
HB-IQF From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 103 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 230 times:
@Loadcontroller,
I have heard that our Managers already started to discuss with the new Swiss and all other customers to
restart our benefits. BTW the Crossair benefit is
still avail after the 1.April ! If they didn´t get
it matched the next 3 months we all have to do the same as our colleques in France. STRIKE !!!!
But I still think it was the right way to get sold to candover. But I will wait what happened the next months, then we will see more ! Hopefully.
If you want you can send me an E-Mail.
KAL_LM From United States, joined Jun 2001, 497 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 217 times:
You'd be suprised how much wages differ from airport to airport. But ususally they're pretty low. When I ramped I got $8.50/hr but for the same company on a different shift only made $7.75/hr (shift differential). I can't remember what the rates for the rest of the aiport are but they're not much higher than that.
I heard though that the Port of SFO requires ground handling companies to pay a minimum livable wage...something like $14/hr because of the cost of living in SFO. Can anyone confirm that?
Regards,
Tom
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
Lasbagman From United States, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 202 times:
Hi Chris
I started out with AMR at $6.00 per hr that was in 1996
I was working 2 nights a wek Passenger Service.
This job was just for the AA flight bennies.
I had a main job that paid very well. That was true of most of us at AMR. When we became WFS most of the AMR agents quit.
WFS had no bennies and were quite demanding. I did get a raise once : 3 CENTS per hour !!.
GlobeGround took over, we are UNION , and the IAM looks out for us over seniority issues.
We start at a wage that pays more then the airlines do.
plus the carriers we handle give us Flight Bennies as well.
I know what you are going throught at WFS
Skyway1 From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1006 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 196 times:
lasbagman,
Good to hear your job is good! I don't work for WFS THANK GOD! I worked for Skyway at the Dayton International airport and we were located with the TWA employees. So basically I was friends with all the TWA guys, and when AA was deciding which stations to keep WFS instead of TWA guys Dayton was on the chop list. I heard the WFS employees were complaining because they had to start handling all the TWA flights in addition to their own and they didn't get a cent raise! So, I just kind of know what the WFS operation is all about. It's good to hear you found a much better job than the crap they offer at WFS! Good luck in the future!
Teahan From Virgin Islands (British), joined Nov 1999, 5183 posts, RR: 60 Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 164 times:
Loadcontroller,
Aren't negotiations going on about Swiss giving your company flight benefits? I got it from several independant sources. If I was you, I would be optimistic.
Anyway, when it was Swissport, weren't your flight benefits slightly different compared to SAirLines companies and other SAirGroup companies. IIRC, Swissport had way fewer foreign airlines compared to SAirLines (Swissair employees) Another example is that Gate Gourmet employees got no ID00s.
Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
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